As i stated before, my story has nothing to do with denying that Ellie isn't gay. Ellie is gay, all the way from her interaction with Riley in this dlc to Druckmann confirming multiple times that she is. It's canon, like his take on TLOU's end, Ellie's stitching skills, Bill being gay, etc. My story was presented in totally different context and i will stop defending it because i have no time/patience to do it for the 3 time. Anyone can read my original post.
I agree, Ellie being a tomboy is not relevant in their world. In fact, it makes perfect sense for all the reasons you mentioned above. But i wasn't talking about that. So i stand behind what i said.
That wasn't targeted at you, btw. I gave that statement about these two girls some posts ago to back up my claims that female sexuality is more fluid in comparison to males. The only reason why i responded in the above post was to clerify that this happening wasn't some show to entertain people or american teens movie. It happened in real life and i just didn't like the idea of someone justifying it for something that it wasn't or to be swept under a rug as just another teenage escapado. That was my intention. Now let's go back to the topic
All people, men and women alike judge their partners by their outlook. We were designed this way, it is in our genes if you like. It cannot be avoided and there is no piont in denying it. That's what make us-us. If you want to blame someone to be judgimental you can go ahead and blame entire world for the sake of it. I liked Ellie's personality alot, but nowhere through the gameplay did i say to myself: "Gosh, i wish i was in David's shoes". But that is not even the point. I was simply expressing my distaste for middle aged male gamers that treated her character in sexual ways , when she was specificly designed to evoke different kind of emotion.
I must stop you right there, in your tracks. Those girls were my dear friends. They weren't some attention w***** as you suggested. They were alone, in their cabin, away from greedy eyes and they were not making out for the sake of men's attention (it was mere coincidence that i was there at that moment). And i must also clarify that they both have boyfriends.
To Wikia contributor:
I did-some of them. i soon stopped because there was nothing new for me to learn, but i did notice that some people thought that riley (in their words, not mine!) would have a male role in their relationship or that riley was forcing herself on ellie or that she was ugly ni***r that deserved to die because she was also gay, etc. I have no comments regarding that statements because there are no proper words to express how distasteful those comments were. For what is worth (if we take gamefaqs and some other sites aside), gamers seem to have accepted riley as a cool new character that was implemented really well for such a short dlc.
i think i know about whom you are talking about (does it have any connection with closing down that topic couple of days ago?). Okay
Thank you. I went so deep with my argumentation that i totally missed this obvious error. I understand that it is really hard to take someone seriously when they don't even get something so fundamental as this the right way. To may defense -I'm not a native speaker and i made a mistake.
Regarding your judgemental remark-i dismiss it. I wasn't lying about physical features of 14 old girl that hasn't fully matured yet and is not even age-consistent. And no, i disagree with you: those people on youtube or forums that would tap her ass were in no way talking about her personality.
I hate to repeat myself and i think i made it clear the first time. i've read that interview with druckmann, that it wasn't his intention to make it look like all tomboys are gay. In the end it doesn't matter-it looks exactly like it and not everyone is reading gaygamer or kotaku to say:"Aha, now i know that! oh, it was just a big coincidence". There are millions of players out there that will see this just like another stereotypical "tomboys are gay" statement in media. It's just the way it is.
To both Winterlotus90 and MayonnEgg:
You don't get that females are more sexually fluid-I understand. That doesn't change the fact that some of them are. And it doesn't change the fact that some of them experiment and don't want to be labeled either way. As for some people that know some people that told them that drunk girls are making out. i find that offensive. I've seen it first hand and those girls were not drunk or intoxicated in any other way. They were just normal girls that were fully able to make rational choices, like you and me right now. I was in no way making any similarities with ellie/riley case and i even evidently stated that there is no conection between those events.
As for making big deal out of it-you know what makes me laugh? All those commenters that say:"I really don't understand why you homophobic douchbags are making such a big deal out of it! It was just small peck on the lips, strictly platonic. Get over yourself" Entire flood of people commenting, quoting druckmann, arguing, bickering. 20 replies and more. And than you have blogers that comment that and say how we still live in middle ages. 90% of people on this blue planet is heterosexual and some of them will allways react with shock and disbelief when something like this happens. Liberal thinking or not.
I agree that you can find her attractive if you are around here age (12-16). That is why i wrote adolescent, where indeed, that is a different story. Plus Ellie was designed this way deliberately so that she would triger geniune parental response from the player, something that a strongly sexualised herione wouldn't be able to.
I agree, females tend to be more fluid about their sexuality. I saw with my own eyes two women kissing affectionately, like a true lovers, but they did not identify themselves as gay. In fact, they did not even identify themselves as bisexuals and they both claimed that they were straight, heterosexual women. Experimenting, obviously.
But this is a different story. Creative director has claimed several times that these two girls were designed as gay characters. Fore more info go see Druckmann's interview on GayGamer, Kotaku (that with faith erin hicks) and Podcast Beyond on IGN. If you consider those things canon, that is.
First and foremost i find it weird that adolescent people found ellie attractive. All pedo marks aside, she is 14 years old, freckled, flat chested, foul mouthed girl. Cutte girl, for whom you can develop father-like feelings, but she is no lara croft, ellie langford, ash or miranda from mass effect series.
Taling about fan service-no, that was actually reverse-fan service and we should aploud nd for having balls to do that. However making a tomboy stereotypicaly gay is not. I don't care if that wasn't what nd was trying to accomplish-it came out to be this way and they are in no way making it easy for all those women out there that are wearing men's clothes not because they are gay but because they feel comfortable in them. I mean in today's media anywhere you look and see a tomboy it's like:"She dresses like a boy. Is she...yep, she is! A knew it!" Really?
As for:"Is Ellie gay? Who cares?" and Ellie being gay is natural, having sexual orientation is something biological and it won't go away. I agree...to some extent. If Ellie is gay, than she is gay. But it seems to me that this thing has overgrown itself. Her sexual orientation has become her focus, instead of being just one small part of her. Since this dlc's release everyone is talking about:"Ellie, flagship gay character or TLOU making revolution, etc". We have millions of heterosexual male and female characters and no one is saying:"Nathan Drake, flagship heterosexual character or Kratos, simbol of heterosexuality". So when someone says:"It doesn't matter" i understand it as:"It shouldn't matter."
To better understand what i'am talking about go watch Grant Voegtle's TLOU: Self-actualising story review and all those comments beneath that video where people are having similar debate.
Well if creators said that she is gay than i guess she is gay. So goodbye those theories about friendship kiss, bicurious incident, girls experimenting (altough all those suggestions are valid and real life because some girls experience them all the time) or bi/pan options. If Neil said she only likes girls, then she only likes girls. Heck, even Ellie's page on TLOU Wiki says that she is gay! Developers didn't make 180 turn and totally changed her character, they only added something that we didn't now, TLOU was pretty much tabula rasa regarding her sexual orientation so they had some solid fundations to explore that part of her in LB.
Altough i need to admit that i had a hard time coming to terms with this idea. First; I never thought about Ellie's orientation to be same as Bill's. I mean Bill is clearly gay, he had gay magasines and i think no one would argue that he is only interested in men. With Ellie...i dunno...i just have a hard time imagine her walking around Tommy's village, looking for her next girl or having lesbian magasines. And to just find someone of the same gender that loves you (in sexual way) in this post apocalyptic world when 60% of world's population is gone...that seems like a long shot.
And even altough Sam and Ellie were only friends (well Sam was probably having a crush on her), i never ruled out a possibility that they could have become something more, given time. Replaying LB unfortunately didn't change this view as much as i wanted it to. Plus i never got that that feeling that Ellie was looking at that poster with skinny girl in TLOU anyway differenty than she would if she was straight. And i also never got a feeling that she killed David's men in main campaign easier, because she has no feeling for males, or (like some put it) because she doesn't loves them.
Now this well sound very homophobic of me, and i'am sorry for that and apologise but in real life i have a lot of gay/lesbian friends. I could spot someone is homosexual from a mile away (the way they interact, behave, sometimes even dress). But with Ellie i just don't get that vibe. She is just so not that stereotypical gay character that we see in media these days, and maybe she was even written that way. But if there was no controversial kiss, i would have never know.
I admit that i was one of those that hoped she would start a family, have her own biological children to spread her immunity. So that her "gift" wasn't just a giant waste. Well...that went out of the window.
Even when i was playing LB i thought that Ellie kissing Riley was something natural because to her, Riley was the only person that ever cared about her. I mean she stole those water guns form general Dickhead (or from somewhere/someone else), traversed entire town full of soldiers and gave up her dreams of becoming a Firefly just to be with Ellie. I'll go on a limb here: i am straight male that loves girls VERY much, but if i grew up in their world, with no family, no special love or care, little to no friends and then met some boy that would do all those things for me that Riley did for Ellie...well shit i would have probably kissed him as well. But that is just me.
BUT Druckmann already confirmed that she and Riley are gay, so all my previous statements are invalid. She is gay, and we all have to deal with it.
As for the future; even if they make Ellie reappear in TLOU 2 (if there is a TLOU 2), they will never make her to be in a relationship, because they think that is unimportant. They will never make so that Ellie would have a boyfriend because they said that she is gay + making her having a male partner would feel like something of a fan service, not a real life thing. In the end all we can do is to accept that she is gay. Like we need to accept star wars prequel trilogy or matrix 2 or 3. that's just the way it is.