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<p>some of those are awfully cerebral, but I don"t have anything better!
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<p>> Shannon's character is the 'shining light' who becomes the thing that draws Ellie back to stability and helps her overcome her hate.
</p><p>Woh, yeah, that option didn't occurr to me. Of course, that leaves the question, what engendered THAT much hate?
</p><p>> something that runs through all the chapters of the game before the two star-kissed lovers finally kiss on that bluff over Jackson where Joel told the Lie
</p><p>What a pretty image! I hope it happpens.
</p>
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<figcaption> </figcaption></figure>1) In the title, "The Last of Us," who is "us?" Humans? But Ellie and Joel were in no way the last people on Earth. I suspect it refers to something more subtle (and cool).
<p>
</p><p>2) In "Left Behind," who is left behind? The two girls are highly integrated into their respective contexts: Riley in the Fireflies and Ellie in the military school. Neither of them is abandoned by the organization that feeds, supports, and protects them. Is it the mall that is left behind after society changes but the mall doesn't? Does it refer to Rilely getting left behind after Ellie doesn't become infected? </p><p>
3) Does "Naughty Dog" refer to an actual dog that one of the company founders owned? What did it do that was naughty? Did Neil bring his dog to work and it pissed stanky dog piss on the carpet? </p><p>
</p><p>4) Do we ever know what it was like for Ellie when her best friend (and the only person she ever loved) turned into an insane fungus monster? It would have been the most traumatic thing that ever happened in Ellie's short life until the David-rape. Do we even know if they hung around the mall together until it happened? Did Ellie have to kill her best friend? </p><p>
</p><p>5) Does Neil speak with a slight lisp or is it my imagination? If so, it's cool—Lisp is my favorite programming language! </p>
<figcaption> </figcaption></figure>1) In the title, "The Last of Us," who is "us?" Humans? But Ellie and Joel were in no way the last people on Earth. I suspect it refers to something more subtle (and cool).
<p>
</p><p>2) In "Left Behind," who is left behind? The two girls are highly integrated into their respective contexts: Riley in the Fireflies and Ellie in the military school. Neither of them is abandoned by the organization that feeds, supports, and protects them. Is it the mall that is left behind after society changes but the mall doesn't? Does it refer to Rilely getting left behind after Ellie doesn't become infected? </p><p>
3) Does "Naughty Dog" refer to an actual dog that one of the company founders owned? What did it do that was naughty? Did Neil bring his dog to work and it pissed stanky dog piss on the carpet? </p><p>
</p><p>4) Do we ever know what it was like for Ellie when her best friend (and the only person she ever loved) turned into an insane fungus monster? It would have been the most traumatic thing that ever happened in Ellie's short life until the David-rape. Do we even know if they hung around the mall together until it happened? Did Ellie have to kill her best friend? </p><p>
</p><p>5) Does Neil speak with a slight lisp or is it my imagination? If so, it's cool—Lisp is my favorite programming language! </p>
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<figcaption> </figcaption></figure>(Correct me on the fine details because my memory totally sux), but when motion-capture acting began a few months ago, only three people were filming for quite a long time: Ashley, Troy, and Shannon Woodward.
<p>But who does Shannon play, that spends a huge amount of game time alone with Joel and Ellie?
</p><p>Naughty Dog has said (again, I can't remember where) that part 2 will involve Ellie's G/F as a major character.
</p><p><i> I think it's a pretty sure bet that Shannon plays Ellie's G/F. </i>And since Naughty Dog makes the CG characters look like the actors, I'll wager folding currency that this pic is what Ellie's girl-girl girlfriend will look like.
</p><p>But whoever it is, I want to see Ellie be in love and hug and kiss—no, NOT for porn reasons, but because even though she's just fictional, it is very important to me that Ellie is, at least for a while, really, really happy.
</p><p>She deserves to be in love, not just because of all she's been through with essentially no rewards at all, but because <i>everybody</i> deserves to be in love. It's what we're "supposed to" do. To me, Ellie is a real person and she deserves that, too.
</p>
<figure class="article-thumb t " style="width: px">File:200.gif <figcaption></figcaption></figure>But except for playing with Riley in the mall (bouncing on the trampoline, taking pix, dancing, doing Haloween stuff in <i>Left Behind</i>), Ellie has NEVER been happy in the entire six-hour story. The closest she got was telling Joel "you know this isn't really all that bad."
<p>The scene where she kisses Riley, but then says "I'm sorry" tore my heart out even more than the Sarah dying scene. <i>She shouldn't have to feel sorry. </i>
</p><p>Ellie was on the verge of experiencing wonderful physical intimacy for the first time, but when Riley didn't kiss her back or hug her or even look in her eyes and smile, Ellie felt like she did something wrong. That really, really bummed me out, because I want SO much for her to feel that level of giddy exciting, joy.
</p><p>God knows she deserves it.
</p><p>And I want it to happen in part 2.
</p>
<figcaption> </figcaption></figure>(Correct me on the fine details because my memory totally sux), but when motion-capture acting began a few months ago, only three people were filming for quite a long time: Ashley, Troy, and Shannon Woodward.
<p>But who does Shannon play, that spends a huge amount of game time alone with Joel and Ellie?
</p><p>Naughty Dog has said (again, I can't remember where) that part 2 will involve Ellie's G/F as a major character.
</p><p><i> I think it's a pretty sure bet that Shannon plays Ellie's G/F. </i>And since Naughty Dog makes the CG characters look like the actors, I'll wager folding currency that this pic is what Ellie's girl-girl girlfriend will look like.
</p><p>But whoever it is, I want to see Ellie be in love and hug and kiss—no, NOT for porn reasons, but because even though she's just fictional, it is very important to me that Ellie is, at least for a while, really, really happy.
</p><p>She deserves to be in love, not just because of all she's been through with essentially no rewards at all, but because <i>everybody</i> deserves to be in love. It's what we're "supposed to" do. To me, Ellie is a real person and she deserves that, too.
</p>
<figure class="article-thumb t " style="width: px">File:200.gif <figcaption></figcaption></figure>But except for playing with Riley in the mall (bouncing on the trampoline, taking pix, dancing, doing Haloween stuff in <i>Left Behind</i>), Ellie has NEVER been happy in the entire six-hour story. The closest she got was telling Joel "you know this isn't really all that bad."
<p>The scene where she kisses Riley, but then says "I'm sorry" tore my heart out even more than the Sarah dying scene. <i>She shouldn't have to feel sorry. </i>
</p><p>Ellie was on the verge of experiencing wonderful physical intimacy for the first time, but when Riley didn't kiss her back or hug her or even look in her eyes and smile, Ellie felt like she did something wrong. That really, really bummed me out, because I want SO much for her to feel that level of giddy exciting, joy.
</p><p>God knows she deserves it.
</p><p>And I want it to happen in part 2.
</p>
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<p>► one had a Firefly armband,
</p><p>Woh! I didn't notice that either. Good observating! That constrains the house to be a FF refuge, and by extension, the FFs are the group she wants to kill every last one of.
</p><p>This is, of course, what we already believed. But the armband is evidence rather than assumption.
</p><p>The big question remains, though. <i>What made Ellie turn from being a sassy little girl into a stranger-murdering hate monster?¹</i>
</p><p>So far, we have no hard evidence of the answer—right?
</p><p>Whatever it is, I hope it never happens to me!
</p><p>___________
</p><p>¹Just changing from a child into a grownup does that, yes. But Ellie is an extreme case.
</p>
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<p>I said at in my blog post,
</p><p>
</p><p>You have a TLOU blog? cool! where? </p>
</p><p>You have a TLOU blog? cool! where? </p>
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<p>► There were infected, cannibals, hunters, the government, and fireflies, but none are purely antagonistic
</p><p>Yeah, though a case could be made for the infected being purely antagonistic. But you're right in the sense that there is no building full of Nazis and your goal is to shoot all of them like an FPS from 20 years ago,
</p><p>► the revenge thing might just be a red herring to throw us off.
</p><p>Well, I must say, you're still batting 1,000 when it comes to recognizing possible misleading stuff. Yeah, I asked myself a few hours ago (when writing my prev post), ""Okay, what assumption am I making in the trailer that might not be true" and I thought I had the outermost possible context established. But by God, you are right; it is<i> never actually stated</i> that her motivation is revenge.
</p><p>► All I'm saying is that given the very limited info we're given from the trailer and other sources so far, there's very little we can concretely say MUST be true.
</p><p>I think we can both agree with that!
</p><p>I feel like it's almost pointless to analyze the trailer and speculate; no matter how airtight I think my model is, I'll wager that it was just a trap for too-clever fans like me.
</p><p>► TLoU was first and foremost a story about the relationships between Joel and Ellie.
</p><p>Hah! To me, that's the ONLY thing it is. These days I watch a youtube walkthrough with all the killing and hiding behind furniture was deleted. When reduced to a movie:
</p><p>1) it's only 30 minuites long!
</p><p>2) It makes a damn good movie, and the story is much more intense because the story parts aren't split up by fistfighting, throat-cutting, making bombs from sugar, and wandering through buildings collecting stuff.
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<p>1) I haven't heard talk like that since I visited my schizophrenic cousin.
</p><p>2) I wrote a witty, acerbic reply worthy of Dorothy Parker, but the moderator apparently deleted it to protect your feelings.
</p><p>So the hell with it.
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thankyouthankyouthankyouthankyouthankyouthankyou!
<p>► There's a third possibility, which is that Ellie knows Joel is lying, but doesn't know what exactly he or the Fireflies did.
</p><p>Woh!
</p><p>Not only "Yup, that's a third possibility", but "Yup, I'm pretty sure that's what happened." Thanx, Brainw. And it provides a broader context to understand stuff in the trailer. Other possibilities put distressingly restrictive constraints on Ellie's overwhelming hate-motivation in 2.
</p><p>But we still don't know what that motivation is.
</p><p>► For all we know she might think Marlene is still alive.
</p><p>Ellie HAS to think Marlene is alive. See below.
</p><p>► Marlene was her mum's close friend, after all.
</p><p>Yes, and her protector. But Marlene's death cannot be her motivation, for all kinda reasons:
</p>
- It's too weak to engender that kind of hate. In her whole life, she only saw Marlene intermittently. Frankly, I don't even think Joel's murder would do it—not that obsessive, evil, murder-everyone hate. The last time I saw that kind of mindless, genocidal revenge killing was when the sand people killed Annikin's mother.
- A vendetta to avenge Marline—a peripherial character— would not be enough to drive a whole game for us fans. She doesn't have our emotional investiment like Ellie and Joel. Marlene tried to kill Ellie, and then kill Joel when he tried to stop her. Frankly, I was glad to see her die. It would <i>definitely</i> not be a wortthy successor to part 1.
- If Ellie is avenging Marlene, who is she vowing to exterminate?
- I hate to sound like an AI inference engine, but if Ellie is on a revenge rampage to avenge Marlene, then she must know Marlene is dead. But she cannot know that because it is implausable for her to find out she's dead without also finding out that Joel killed her. However, if she knows Joel killed Marlene, Ellie has no reason for an avenging revenging rampage.
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<p>Joel MUST be alive because he was carrying a handgun. Ghosts can't carry guns and shoot people¹. If they could, then they'd just be invisible live people. And in this case, Joel wasn't even invisible.
</p><p>______
</p><p>¹Well, except in High Plains Drifter. And, arguably, Tom Riddle in the 2nd Harry Potter book.
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<p>WOW, see, that's the kind of insight I come here for.
</p><p>But—and correct me if I'm wrong—you think that Ellie will be overcome with seething, murderous hate, to "find and kill every last one of them" <i>because they couldn't figure out how to find a cure?</i>
</p><p>Being the cure was not her childhood dream; she only knew about it for two weeks plus the time she was with Joel. And even then, she was just going along with it ("Hey fuck you man, I didn't ask for any of this!")
</p><p>Do you think that she'll turn to hate and mass-murder when nothing in particular happened to trigger it (like her GF or Joel being killed)?
</p><p>Remember, we don't know which is true, but either:
</p><p>1) Ellie believed Joel, in which case the Fireflies were nobel and tried their best but they just couldn't invent a cure for people turning into fungus monsters, or
</p><p>2) Ellie knows the truth. But in that case, why would she blame the fireflies when Joel is the one who shot the doctor and prevented her from saving the world?
</p><p>I think her sudden flipping from good to evil must be due to something very, very bad happening to tear her soul from her heart. And in the game, the only possible things THAT bad would be if they killed Joel or they killed her GF.
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<p>OP: What game character would you like to hang out with?
</p><p>ME: Ellie and Sarah in the Fallout 4 wasteland, in vault suits.
</p><p>YOU: I'm going to commit suicide.
</p><p>I no longer even try to understand non-autistics; I just blow them off.
</p><p>Not in the sexy way, though.
</p>
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<p>Ben and M67:
</p><p>Yeah, that makes sense. And it implies that either she knows she could save the world but chooses to kill fireflies instead, or she believed Joel and doesn't know she can save the world.
</p><p>I am VERY inclined to believe the latter, because you're right, she thought it was her turn to die. And the thing I don't think anyone's noticed is, she wanted to die <i>even without ever knowing that if she did, it would save everyone else in the world.</i>
</p><p>Joel told her that she wasn't the saviour of humanity after all, that her immunity couldn't make a cure. If she wanted to die anyway, the additional information that "Oh BTW, if you do die you can save everyone" would make her do it.
</p><p>That she's doing <i>anything</i> else means she does not know.
</p>
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<p>>"Are you <i>sure</i> you want to do this?" That certainly sounds like someone trying to get someone else to back off to me.
</p><p>Well if so, it's an exceedingly mild way to do it. He's talking about Ellie kicking down doors and murdering dozens of people until she is certainly killed herself—probably sooner than later. If he was actually trying to talk her out of it, he'd be WAY more emphatic.
</p><p>> "revenge for a murdered girlfriend" idea? Goodness, I hope not. That's so cliche and overused!
</p><p>Not if Naughty Dog uses it. It would be the only thing powerful enough to make Ellie hate like that. And are you suggesting the alternative—equally cliché—that someone's best friend is killed and they get revenge?
</p><p>Can you see playing 2: Joel is killed, and you spend the whole game finding and shooting everyone in the group that did it? <i>That's</i> what would be lame, and it would not have the visceral emotional impact on your soul that Part 1 had. (Well, at least it had that effect on me).
</p><p>In his playstation interview, Neil said they had to think for a long, long time to create a story worthy of Part 1. Joel dying early in the game and we spend the rest of it killing people, <i>that ain't it. </i>
</p><p>If it was, Part 2 would not only be unworthy of TLOU, it would be a crappy video game from 20 years ago with no suprises, no emotional import, nothing but shooting everyone you see, and it would be universally panned as <i>extremely</i> disappointing.
</p><p>Plus, it's so drearily predictable, and Naughty Dog knows that everyone expects it. They even made a trailer that transparently says to expect it, with Ellie vowing to kill everyone and Joel walking out of the mist like Clint Eastwood in High Plains Drifter. And not showing us his face? If revenge for Joel is what happens in part 2, then the trailer was WAAY too obvious for Naughty Dog to make.
</p><p>I'm sorry, that plot story jes' don't feed the bulldog.
</p><p>Finally, if they did kill Joel:
</p><p>a) It would also kill any further sequels, period.
</p><p>b) If Joel dies we riot. That is, if he's killed—no matter what the reason— everyone will hate Lazy Dog.
</p><p>They're misdirecting us so we won't expect something that truly kicks us in the head (or the balls. Guys and girls take their instructions from different parts of the body).
</p>
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<p>
► Ellie is hunting down the Fireflies because either (a) they tried to seize control of Jackson or (b) threatened to destroy the town if she was not handed over to them; </p><p>Surely you jest! Ellie's seething anger is NOT because someone overran the town, and it's DEFINITELYnot because someone threatened to. </p><p>She is driven by hate, the mindless, evil kind. Even killing Joel could not cause that terminal hate in Ellie. The ONLY thing that could elicit that response would be if she became one with someone else (a girl), they were very very happy, and someone killed her other half—expecially if they tortured her to death in front of her just to make Ellie feel horrible. </p><p>THAT would motivate this kind of overwhelming, seething, singular hate. </p><p>► Joel trying to reach her to get her to back off her vendetta </p><p>Look carefully. There is actually no indication that he's trying to make her back off her vendetta. He just asks, "Are you sure you want to do this, Kiddo?" He just would rather not see Ellie killed too, which is what I'm sure he thinks will happen. (And it damn well better not!) </p><p>Joel saw how much she loved her murdered GF, and he knows how fireflies killing her GF tore out her soul just like Joel's when Sarah died—only more so because it would be specifically the GF they kill, not just "everyone outside the military perimiter." </p><p>He knows her revenge is legitimate. </p><p>And so will we. That's why we will enjoy being her when she finds more fireflies and kills them all in a murderous rage. </p>
► Ellie is hunting down the Fireflies because either (a) they tried to seize control of Jackson or (b) threatened to destroy the town if she was not handed over to them; </p><p>Surely you jest! Ellie's seething anger is NOT because someone overran the town, and it's DEFINITELYnot because someone threatened to. </p><p>She is driven by hate, the mindless, evil kind. Even killing Joel could not cause that terminal hate in Ellie. The ONLY thing that could elicit that response would be if she became one with someone else (a girl), they were very very happy, and someone killed her other half—expecially if they tortured her to death in front of her just to make Ellie feel horrible. </p><p>THAT would motivate this kind of overwhelming, seething, singular hate. </p><p>► Joel trying to reach her to get her to back off her vendetta </p><p>Look carefully. There is actually no indication that he's trying to make her back off her vendetta. He just asks, "Are you sure you want to do this, Kiddo?" He just would rather not see Ellie killed too, which is what I'm sure he thinks will happen. (And it damn well better not!) </p><p>Joel saw how much she loved her murdered GF, and he knows how fireflies killing her GF tore out her soul just like Joel's when Sarah died—only more so because it would be specifically the GF they kill, not just "everyone outside the military perimiter." </p><p>He knows her revenge is legitimate. </p><p>And so will we. That's why we will enjoy being her when she finds more fireflies and kills them all in a murderous rage. </p>
(Edited by LuxiTurna)