Talk:Bill

Funny Moment...

At their first meeting, Ellie frees herself and attacks Bill. Words are exchanged, and a noticably destressed Bill busies himself during conversation by sharpening the wrong side of his kukri with a rock. Shadizar666 (Ruck Rules) 06:15, September 8, 2015 (UTC)

Bill's weight...

I'm gonna be honest, I don't think Bill is overweight!

Bill is wearing some sort of canvas construction pants, and other sturdy wear designed for ruffin' it up. He's also nearly as tall as Joel, but he's covered in pockets, most of which have shit in them. If you were to strip Bill of his survival dress, you'd probably find a slightly thicker version of Joel underneath; a solid barrel torso, and matching limbs of hardened muscle. Clothing hides a LOT of physique.

On a side note. I don't think Bill was technically gay; Frank was most likely gay. If there was any intimacy between them, it was likely strictly sexual gratification. Shadizar666 (Ruck Rules) 05:33, September 17, 2015 (UTC)

You have a good point. Another reason for Bill to be so heavily-dressed is that thicker clothing would reduce the chance of actually being scratched/bitten by an Infected.  M67PattonZippo (talk) 14:33, September 17, 2015 (UTC)

How do you draw the conclusion that Bill wasn't gay? Brainwasher5 (talk) 14:41, September 17, 2015 (UTC)

You don't need to be gay, to have a same sex companion, you just need one person with a desire, and another willing to relieve that desire. It's easy to assume Bill is gay, after all, Frank isn't alive to confirm or deny. I've experienced something similar, he was hetro, while I'm hetro-flexible; so I can see how Bill and Frank's "relationship" played out, in several different scenerios, most don't involve Bill being gay. Think about this for a moment, Bill is masculine, paranoid and intolerant (Joel knows Bill, but not Frank, and the battery is new; so Bill was an asshat beforehand, and Frank was a passing... interest), Frank's absence didn't make Bill paranoid. Frank's letter could either be written to "help" Bill get over their relationship, or it could be written from honest fucking hatred; I know, that particular hatred, I know it well.

There are also a lot of reasons Bill would have a gay skin mag in his roost, and still not be gay. First, it's something to read. Second, might have stuff of mechanical interest, Playboy has a lot of shit in it, with just a smattering of skin. Third, it might have been Frank's, we just don't know. Fourth, it was in a pile of loot Bill hadn't gotten around to sorting. Fifth, Bill may well have had gay interest or curiousity, we don't know.

In the end, Bill's sexuallity is speculative at best, and probably not worth mentioning on the page. Shadizar666 (Ruck Rules) 02:18, September 18, 2015 (UTC)

Acting masculine doesn't mean that a guy is straight, though. There are feminine-acting lesbians and masculine-acting gay men. 

We're obviously not going to see the entirety of Frank and Bill's relationship since Frank's dead and Bill's not the type to go around everywhere telling everyone about the dude he banged last night. 

Considering the few sources of information we have, I think it's safe to say that Bill is indeed gay. We might not have that much evidence that he was into guys, but we have absolutely zero evidence that he was into women. I'm not sure if Naughty Dog has confirmed this but GLAAD has recognized Bill as a positive interpretation of a homosexual character. You'd think ND would disagree in some capacity if Bill is indeed straight. Brainwasher5 (talk) 09:45, September 18, 2015 (UTC)

"And then in writing the character, I was like “oh, well it’s much more interesting to say okay, here’s this guy who vocalizes all these concerns and says you should never care for someone else but actually deep inside he’s kind of the opposite of that, where he’s yearning to have a partnership, someone there to be with him.” So then became the idea that he had a partner that he was living with, they kind of looked out for each other. Someone he cared for and someone he failed in protecting. Again, kind of this cautionary tale for Joel. And then in writing the character, and it’s hard to articulate these things after the fact, but it felt like they were more than just survivors. That there was a deeper relationship than that. For lack of better term. And that’s how he became a gay character."

Straight from Neil in an interview here. Neil does mention that Bill's actor took his orientation as being more open to interpretation, yet Neil pretty much confirms without argue Bill is gay. Riley Heligo ^{The Forgotten Sinner} 14:03, September 18, 2015 (UTC)

Yeah, while I am now wrong, and that should be clarified on the page to reflect Bill's character; and again, I have to point out, Neil's own words (further down the interview) reflect how I saw Bill's character, based on my personal experience. His character was presented in a very grey area; now I've explained why he needent be "gay", and basing his sexuality on a skin mag was faulty at best; as it the ONLY thing, which causes us to speculate on his sexuality. Shadizar666 (Ruck Rules) 21:59, September 19, 2015 (UTC)

Seriously? Why are we still debating this? He's gay. He was in a relationship with another man. He has gay porno magazines.

Why is it that when a man and a woman have a sexual relationship, everyone accepts them as heterosexual, but whenever a fictional man is in a relationship with another man, we always question his sexuality? Move on. Brainwasher5 (talk) 07:20, September 21, 2015 (UTC)

Because, unlike Dorian from DAI, most gay characters character, don't hinge on their gayness. Bill's character and story didn't hinge on gayness; it was just a skin mag, ooyay. Shadizar666 (Ruck Rules) 16:57, September 21, 2015 (UTC)

I'm arguing that you're thinking the opposite direction. Even with evidence of someone being gay shoved in your face you use the "multiple facets of personality" argument to say that they're not actually gay guys, they're just going through a phase.

In real life, gay people aren't solely identified by how gay they are. They are regular people like you and me who have jobs, lives, interests, and aversions. Like how Bill is much more interested in surviving the apocalypse than finding some poontang to bang. Contrary to what soap operas and video games might tell you, gay people aren't one dimensional sex-obsessed deviants. Why aren't you arguing that Joel's probably not actually straight? Or Marlene? Or Tess? Why are you specifically only questioning Bill and Ellie's sexuality? After all, there is as much evidence to suggest that Joel is gay as that Bill is straight (which is to say, none at all). I hope this isn't how you treat gay people in real life.

The developers have already said that Bill is gay. They are the very definition of a primary source in terms of video game lore. You have even admitted yourself that you were incorrect here. Move on. Brainwasher5 (talk) 03:58, September 22, 2015 (UTC)

Seriously, you're gonna lose your shit over it? It was a skin mag. All other factors, sexuality need not apply. Shadizar666 (Ruck Rules) 07:37, September 22, 2015 (UTC)

It's a skin mag and the fact that Bill was in a relationship with Franklin, and the developers of TLoU stating that Bill is gay. But sure, pretend that the rest of the evidence doesn't exist if that fits your agenda.

I'm not "losing my shit"; I'm just exasperated. There is direct evidence from a primary source refuting your claim. You have actually already earlier conceded that you were incorrect, yet you insist on trucking on somehow. Let it go already. Brainwasher5 (talk) 09:56, September 22, 2015 (UTC)

Um, Shadizar, it has been proven by the developers that Bill is gay. Why are you still trying to debate this. For that matter, why is anyone? I say we just end this discussion here, before it spirals out of control even more.  M67PattonZippo (talk) 11:29, September 22, 2015 (UTC)

I did, and I've accepted the >>non-game<< evidence provided, when it was given. It's a non-issue now; but it seems to be an open wound for BW5. Take it up with him, he's the one who dragged it into the forums. Shadizar666 (Ruck Rules) 01:00, September 23, 2015 (UTC)

My disagreements with you lie in the fact that you also consider Ellie's sexuality to be debatable, as well as treating Ellie to be a walking incubator rather than a human being. But that hardly has to do with what's going on here; Ellie is barely mentioned at all in the above discussion, with you acting over and over again that evidence for Bill's sexuality lies purely in the magazine and somehow doesn't exist anywhere else long after you've actually admitted that you were in the wrong. Several contributors have brought up evidence against your speculation and/or advised you to move on, but you simply won't drop it at this point due to some seemingly pathological need to argue. What do you stand to gain at this point, and how does it help Bill's page? Brainwasher5 (talk) 01:15, September 23, 2015 (UTC)

Case in point. Shadizar666 (Ruck Rules) 20:49, September 23, 2015 (UTC)

Bill's age

Is there any reference or canonical basis for Bill's age? If there is I'm not aware of it, and I disagree with the "mid 30s" estimate(?) currently listed for him. IMO, he looks closer to early/mid 40s... and could probably believably pass for anywhere from 35 to 50. Regardless, if there's no confirmation of the "mid 30s" value, perhaps it would be best just to leave the "age" and "born" fields blank? Swedgin (talk) 23:53, 15 February 2021 (UTC)

You're right. Thanks for spotting this! Snivy ✦ The coolest Pokemon ever ✦ 00:39, 16 February 2021 (UTC)

His status

I've changed Bill's status to unknown primarily because it's coming off as speculative that he IS indeed alive, if there's something from the developers it'd be better off to be cited.

It's been five years since the events of The Last of Us 1, while Bill WAS in a relatively fortified location a lot can change within five years, and Bill makes comments implying that the Infected are getting more and more into his part of the town he's living in. The lack of mention of him outside an offhand comment about trip mines from Ellie would possibly suggest there's no contact with Bill.

Bill was also living alone after Frank left, and while it's implied that Frank left not long before Joel and Ellie arrived. It's not uncommon for people being on their own with no form of social contact for extended periods of time tend to jump off the slippery slope which can result in dangerous habits such as making one stressful and develop sleeping problems such as insomnia, which in turn is harmful to the body as well as inducing sudden suicide.

I just think it's a bit silly to say a character who's self isolated and already shown to be unstable in a post apocalyptic environment is labelled as "alive" regardless of his location. Swalko (talk) 20:31, 26 March 2021 (UTC)

Personally, I think Bill should be left as "alive." He's alive and not in immediate danger when we last see him. I'd rather document his observable status as far as his involvement in the game over a speculation that he might not have made it another five years. RinasaurusRex (talk) 21:51, 26 March 2021 (UTC)

I agree with this, but let's get some other opinions before we make a final decision. M67PattonZippo (talk) 13:17, 27 March 2021 (UTC)