Archived discussions[]
Please see the following for officially archive discussions: Archive one
Scenes from One Night Live vs Part II[]
heyo. Question about how to handle Joel's biography:
So the scene where Joel gives Ellie the guitar in the prologue of Part II had an earlier version in the One Night Live performance. Currently looks like it's the One Night Live version that's documented in Joel's bio section. Should that be replaced with the version from Part II? Do we keep the One Night Live version somewhere on Joel's article? Or do we just keep that version documented on the One Night Live article?
RinasaurusRex (talk) 14:21, October 14, 2020 (UTC)
- Hey. :) My take on it is we should really convert it to the Part II version, but only minor tweaks are needed because the scenes are 85% the same.
- Firstly, the game release has now become the version of the scene which the majority of readers will now associate it with. For instance, only a minority will know of the One Night Live gig and even less actually witnessed it. Second, the events have changed slightly - Esther is not mentioned at all in the official game release for instance. Which leads to my next point: the game is the main avenue in which the game released. While both scenes are technically "canon" per wikia's wide acceptance of what "canon" is, I'd say the game's version of events is more in line with what is actually presented in the article; all but the One Night Live section is drawn from what we learn in-game, hence changing said section to match that will finish the puzzle, if you will, of the article's content.
- Therefore, I say we should adjust the content to focus on the Events in Part II rather than One Night Live and delegate One Night Live events to the trivia section, much like how the scene is noted on Jackson (Part II). Snivy ✦ The coolest Pokemon ever ✦ 16:48, October 14, 2020 (UTC)
- I agree with Snivystorm. Let's go with the version that was shown in the game, and include a trivia point about the differences from One Night Live. M67PattonZippo (talk) 21:42, October 14, 2020 (UTC)
- Sounds good to me. Just wanted to note this will also need to be applied to the Ellie article. :)
- RinasaurusRex (talk) 23:50, October 14, 2020 (UTC)
- I am good with that. ONL's content can be adjusted there too. Snivy ✦ The coolest Pokemon ever ✦ 13:41, October 17, 2020 (UTC)
As no other editors have come forward in over two weeks, the decision stands. The One Night Live segments in Joel and Ellie's page history's will be adapted to reflect the events depicted in Part II. Thank you. :) Editors must wait a mimumum of three weeks before they can reopen and challenge this discussion's verdict. Snivy ✦ The coolest Pokemon ever ✦ 12:59, 5 November 2020 (UTC)
Joel's height (2)[]
Should we round Joel's height to 6'0? Technically, he's 5'11.65 but, still, most people would round that up in the U.S.MICKEYMOUSEUSERNAME (talk) 14:57, 12 April 2021 (UTC)
- No need really. We take his height exactly as the source provides it. For instance, you wouldn't say "well, he's nearly 20, so we might as well say he's 20" or "he almost got 70/100 on his test, so we'll give him 70". Simply not. Further, just because that's something "most people" do doesn't mean we should as well; argument ad populum is a logical fallacy. Snivy ✦ The coolest Pokemon ever ✦ 19:13, 12 April 2021 (UTC)
- Sure, but height is more relative than age or test scores. For example, U.S legal documents mark "5'8" as being 172cm, despite that exact measurement translating to 5'7.7 (That's what I meant by saying "most people"). Or even on this Wiki, we have Ellie's height rounded to 5'5, despite her "technically" being 5'4.96. Joel is closer to being 6'0 tall than being 5'11. MICKEYMOUSEUSERNAME (talk) 22:55, 12 April 2021 (UTC)
- Other than age (which is a different situation, mostly for legal reasons) I can't think of too many examples where a fractional number is rounded DOWN despite being more than halfway to the next value. While you wouldn't say "they got a 69 on their test, so let's call it 70," you would if they got a 69.7, because it's closer to 70 than 69. Same with height: it's typically rounded up or down, depending on which inch its closest to. Someone who is 5'11.2" is considered 5'11", but someone that's 5'11.7" is 6'0".
- In my opinion, Joel's height should either be rounded up to 6'0", or given as the exact value of 5'11.65". It shouldn't be rounded down.Swedgin (talk) 00:12, 13 April 2021 (UTC)
- I agree with Swedgin. Is there any reason why we should round his height DOWN, despite it being more close to 6'0? MICKEYMOUSEUSERNAME (talk) 06:18, 14 April 2021 (UTC)
- We should rather just round Joel's height to 5'11½" (considering the exact number is closer to a half than anything else) and keep Ellie's rounded up to 5'5". It's not super uncommon for half an inch to be used in an encyclopedic space (especially Wikipedia), and eliminates a pointless, subjective discussion like this (as I don't believe there is an official format for this situation). A lot of people would round their height and say they are x'x½", rather than say either their exact height in decimals or worry about rounding up or down to the whole number. NinjaFatGuy (talk) 08:44, 14 April 2021 (UTC)
"murder" is the wrong word.[]
Murder carries a moral connotation. Joel is and was, objectively, in the right in every action he takes. He is therefore "killing" the enemy and is justified in doing so. Kill is the more accurate term. DrinkySmurf (talk) 05:00, 16 September 2021 (UTC)
- I'll agree with part of what you said: "kill" is a better description in this case, since murder indicates premeditation and malice (morality doesn't enter into it).
- On the issue of every action of Joel's being morally right... well, I'll just say that you and I obviously had two very different experiences when playing these games, and leave it at that. Swedgin (talk) 06:04, 16 September 2021 (UTC)
- I agree with you Swedgin. Joel was far from being objectively right in "every action" he did. Defending Ellie against the ravenous hunters is a vastly different scenario to Joel killing the father of another daughter and therefore preventing humanity from finding a cure to CBI, which therefore condemned millions more to die to the infection.
- One thing they do have a point on is the use of murder compared to kill, but then its a really minor nuisance in the article that further debate is not really necessary. It's a personal preference to the editor writing the word in the article at the time, nothing more. Snivy ✦ The coolest Pokemon ever ✦ 12:21, 16 September 2021 (UTC)
Joel's age[]
Hey all. I am documenting the recent findings here as an archive of sorts so editors and readers have a full understanding of Joel's now canonically age.
Until 2022, Joel's rough age was around the late 40s per an official bio released by Naughty Dog in the build up to The Last of Us releasing. Joel's birthday was then confirmed as the day prior to outbreak day in September, but nothing more was given before that. This meant we estimated his age as late 40s and subsequently early to mid 50s after Part II released.
However, this all changed this year with Part I releasing (a PS5 remake of the original game). In it, during "The Quarantine Zone" chapter, Joel and Tess' ID cards are now perfectly visible when Joel hands them to the soldier guarding the checkpoint. Thanks to PS5's photo mode, it is clear to see Joel's documented birth is September, 1981. Therefore, we have a precise age to provide him now - exactly 32 during outbreak day, and between 51 and 52 during the events of Part I and 56 during Part II.
Despite this, his precise age during Sarah's birth is not known as Sarah's DofB is not known. We only know she is 12 years old at the time of her death, but lack an exact date. Therefore, much like Joel's DoB before Part I, Sarah could theoretically be born anytime between October, 2000 and early September 2001. Consequentially, Joel's age at her birth can range from 19 to 20.
That clears things up there. Happy editing all! Snivy ✦ The coolest Pokemon ever ✦ 22:58, 11 September 2022 (UTC)
Early life[]
When was the events of Joel's early life revealed? MedievalVibes (talk)